Public Challenge to David Griffin

Stop all your verbal attacks against Chic, Tabby, Nick Farrell, Pat Zalewski, the SRIA and all the rest, and use your supposed EU trademarks to stop the neo-nazis in Greece from bringing the “Golden Dawn” name into disrepute.

If you want to be remembered for doing something good for the Golden Dawn community, that is.

32 Comments

Filed under Comment, Supernatural

32 responses to “Public Challenge to David Griffin

  1. But there is no profit to be made doing that.

    • Except perhaps the honour of having done something heroic. One has to live in hope!

      • I was also hoping to see something heroic done in response to this but apparently, even with attorneys “on staff”… it is OK to allow the use of the “trademarked name” for Fascist Organizations in Europe.

      • Since I first wrote this blog post Mr Griffin has issued two more increasingly paranoid attacks against everyone else in the greater GD and Rosicrucian community, but has resolutely failed to do anything about the situation in Greece. I must assume that Griffin does not read my blog and that none of his followers have brought it to his attention, as it would be obviously be beneath my dignity to accuse him of ignoring the Greece situation out of sheer yellow-bellied cowardice.

  2. Hell, yeah, great idea Alex! That would be good 🙂

  3. I’ve waited for someone to bring this up!

    I suspect a problem may be that this party is not named Golden Dawn, but Χρυσή Αυγή (Chrysi Avgi) – greek for Golden Dawn. I know to little about the laws applicable to trademarks, but this could provide a problem to a trademark holder of the name “Golden Dawn”, or any other variation. But I agree with your sentiment, Alex. They should at least research the possibility of doing what you advocate.

    On a sidenote, I’ve attempted to find out why they choose the name they did, if it has anything to do with a fascination to anything remotely esoteric or occult, but so far I’ve found very little. Well, I found two articles without references claiming this IS linked to HOGD, (which one would be my question!) Another perhaps slightly more likely alternative is that they have had a following of esoteric national socialist/nazi’s. However big or small this is, is unknown to me.

    Further believers in conspiracies and the NWO advocate that most of the top dogs of classical nazism were thulists and things of that nature, known historians debunk this – but that does not mean that there are not a few who tried to fuse esotericicism with hitlerism. In swedish we have the work of historian and scholar Göran Dahl: “Radikalare än Hitler? De esoteriska och gröna nazisterna. Inspirationskällor. Pionjärer. Förvaltare. Ättlingar.” presenting what forms of esoteric nazis there were. Savitri Devi (Maximiani Portas) perhaps being the most known one, viewing Hitler as an avatar from a hindo viewpoint.

    • I’ve just taken a look at the website of the UK Government’s Intellectual Property Office where it says, I quote,

      If you use an identical or similar trade mark for identical or similar goods and services to a registered trade mark – you may be infringing the registered mark if your use creates a likelihood of confusion on the part of the public. This includes the case where because of the similarities between the marks the public are led to the mistaken belief that the trade marks, although different, identify the goods or services of one and the same trader.

      (Emphasis mine.)

      The law in Britain in this regard I believe is the same across the EU. Hence, the fact that one name is in Greek and the other English is not by itself reason for saying there are no grounds for a trademark infringement action – it would be decided upon the “likelihood of confusion.”

  4. I just want to make it clear that I am not saying that there is no case, but I wanted to adress a possible challenge – there is clearly “likelyhood of confusion” found here. At the same time a greek-supremacist party and an esoteric order does not provide a “similar goods and services”.

    But I do hope that _any_ order that may have a case picks up on your appeal to do what they can to obstruct Chrysi Avgi.

  5. Wayward magician

    David Griffin wants to be the only Golden Dawn order on the planet, it’s as simple as that. He doesn’t need money, he just wants to be adored. Right now, having a Greek fascist party under the same name actually benefits him by making everyone using the GD name look bad, then he can make an ass of himself and blend in all day…

    • I find it hard to believe he would resort to such tactics. If Griffin owns the Golden Dawn trademark in Europe, then anyone besmirching the GD name will make him look bad more than anyone else. That is his prize for having fought so hard for the trademark.

      As a wise man once said, “With great power comes great responsibility.”

  6. Hi Alex, I posted a similar reply on Olen’s blog. IMO there is probably far to much history (water under the bridge) for this to change. The behaviours are petty much set in stone.

    The Neo-Nazi thing is I believe rather complex, and I think that any society has the right to protect its hertiage and culture from pending and growing foreign influences that will ultimately undermine its way of life if allowed to develop.
    Cheers
    Ps; Nice pair of fangs on the vampire chick.

    • If I wanted to protect my national integrity, I would not entrust the task to a bunch of extreme right-wing politicians, given their past record. Germany, Italy, Bosnia – the history of right-wing regimes is the history of failure.

      • True, you and both – yet they get recognisable talley of votes. Your one vote is equal to my one vote. Like I said the neo-nazi motivations are complex, we need to consider why are so many votes attracted to this sort of politics, even with such a history. I don’t think anyone with sufficient authority is actually entrusting them with anything. It is just the way democracy works. Cheers..

  7. I heard David Griffin stating that he tried to post a comment here to address your challange and to explain its juridical difficulties, but that his comment never were approved by you.

    S:.R:.

    • I never received anything! If he filled out the comment form properly it should have come through, I haven’t blocked him or anything.

      • I guess that you are reading his blog on a regular basis, which your challange clearly implies. He has addressed your challenge and its juridical implications there, on the comments section in one of his latest blog posts. “Suecae” has summarized it rather well above. The Golden Dawn as we know it cannot properly be categorized as a “political organization” and therefore our trademark doesn’t apply to the Greek party “Chrsyi Avgi” and their political activites, as we are not addressing the same “market” as they are. A typical “Chrsyi Avgi” voter has probably never contemplated the esoteric meaning of the ancient words “Gnothi Seauton”.

        S:.R:.

      • S.’.R.’.,

        I guess that you are reading his blog on a regular basis, which your challange clearly implies.

        Actually no – I rely on Google News updates.

        The Golden Dawn as we know it cannot properly be categorized as a “political organization” and therefore our trademark doesn’t apply to the Greek party “Chrsyi Avgi” and their political activites, as we are not addressing the same “market” as they are. A typical “Chrsyi Avgi” voter has probably never contemplated the esoteric meaning of the ancient words “Gnothi Seauton”.

        That is the most contemptibly stupid argument I have ever heard in my entire life. I don’t give a fuck about whether Chrysi Augi voters worry about the G.’.D.’.. I do give a fuck about potential G.’.D.’. initiates who worry about the Chrysi Augi. Do you get it??? If your order – never mind anyone else’s – sees a decline in new Neophytes henceforth because they are put off by associations with the Neo-Nazis in Greece, it will be your guv’nor’s fault for saying “nothing to do with me – I don’t want to get involved.”

        Face it: in the future, the fact that David Griffin made contact with the Secret Chiefs will all be forgotten. The fact that he got a whole load of brand new third order material will all be forgotten. The fact that he constructed a witty argument that the SRIA is trying to take over the Golden Dawn, using a load of “Anonymous” posts to his blog which are quite obviously trolls and sock-puppets who do not represent the SRIA at all, will all be forgotten. The only thing that will be remembered is that in the hour the Golden Dawn – and the World – actually needed him to do something good, he failed, merely because he thought it was too much trouble.

      • Alex, I see there is no point in arguing with you as you choose to interpret anything I say in a negative way. I wish you and your readers well.

        S:.R:.

      • For my part I apologise for using the words “contemptibly stupid.” However I do not apologise for violently disagreeing with the general gist of your comment. People in the Golden Dawn whom I speak to do take this matter that seriously.

  8. G. N.

    With regard to the points made by Suecae and S.R., to the best of my knowledge there are no separate categories for political organizations under EU trademark conventions, so when considering their activities one would need to look for overlaps within specific classifications. Notably, Griffin’s trademark extends to ‘evangelical and religious services, astrological services, social and cultural information services‘ (my emphasis). Arguably, a conflict does arise in the fairly broad areas of ‘social and cultural information’ and a legal defence would appear tenable. The anglophone media tend to report on the Greek political group as ‘Golden Dawn’ rather than ‘Chrysi Avgi’ so there is clearly scope for confusion here. The situation is, I believe, exacerbated by Griffin’s seemingly deliberate attempts to link whoever in the GD or rosicrucian community has aroused his ire this week with fascism, even referring to Chrysi Avgi in some of his posts. Far from disassociating the Greek organization from the GD one could be excused for suspecting he intends to foster a connection.

  9. sholbrook

    Wow, what a day I have had. Lately I returned to the Great Work after taking sometime off to “render onto Ceaser” and upon my return I thought I would look for a group to join and progress with… I first looked into the OTO and AA only to find different factions attacking each other with tooth, fang and claw. After spending the day wading through the filth splattered all over the internet about their battles and claims I decided maybe I should stick with my roots and search out the GD groups. My first google and pow! The same thing is happening with it. Does this not remind anyone of events from a hundred years ago? Does englightenment at the highest levels truely lead to megalomania? Are all the Masters out to only dupe and line their pockets as all these artciles claim? What has happened to the Great Work, are we condemned to struggle along like the solitary practioners of the Dark Ages?
    Most of the material is already printed, as good as any road map, so what is all the fuss about. My spiral of depression finally lead my to this blog and i’d like to thank you for adding some humour to a sad day ( I howled when I got to the line about trolls and sock-puppets). At this point solo seems the only safe road.

    Peto Conventus

    • There is of course a third alternative – seek out those who maintain a dignified silence whilst others are talking shit on the internet. They are out there, but they’re hard to find because, well, they keep silent.

  10. Erasmus

    Hi Alex,
    I think your blog is refreshing and well grounded, I landed here after reading some of your JWMT articles, good stuff!

    The current GD / RR et AC internet scene has become nauseating to many people, and the buzz concerning who is infiltrating who, the SRIA / GD / RR et AC, et al, certainly is a bee in a lot of bonnets. So I don’t care to try and debate that semi full circle appearing nonsense.

    What I would like to know is if you have had any exposure to the so called “Ogdoadic” system, proffered by the Barcynski’s, aka, Denning and Phillips? If so, is it a valid system of Magick in your opinion? It has been said they admired Crowley, and used the “Master Therion” appellation in reference, without trying to exhibit outright Thelemic concepts. That said, what’s your take on the Ogdoadic system as contrasted with the “Masonic / Rosicrucian” format of the GD / RR et AC? I am very familiar with both systems, but want the input and thoughts of other magicians that I respect.
    I also acknowledge the technique per technique and formulae similarities.
    Does the High Consecration of the Grail fulfill the same Current contact renewal function as the Equinox Rite of the GD / RR et AC?

    Thanks,
    Erasmus

    • To be quite honest I have never made an in-depth study of the Ogdoadic system. I do however have most of Dennings & Phillips’ books, which I occasionally look at for reference. From what I have read though, what struck me was the overwhelming similarity of their Qabalah to that of the GD. The “Five-Fold House of Sacrifice” for example is really not much different to the description of the Qabalistic parts of the soul, which the GD uses, except using different words.

      It does of course differ in certain respects from that of the GD, although I have not come across any compelling reason why I should unlearn my GD correspondences just learn those of the Aurum Solis.

  11. Erasmus

    Thanks for your reply Alex, especially since I forgot to congratulate you on Britain hosting the summer Olympics, the energetics must be considerable? ;^)

    I do not advocate that anyone forsake the “GD” system. Just curious as to how many also are aware of the so called “Odoadic” system. I have been involved with the GD, et al., since 1977 when a “working”, as opposed to just a study group became active, I was fortunately present for it’s very inception. This group eventually became a full blown temple about three years down the road. It is Independent, Proud of it, and doesn’t feel obliged to petition anyone for a charter!
    I have always found the GD / RR et AC system of High Magic to be Supremely Beautiful, workable and sufficient for my needs! The system Works, despite not having the “Official” approval of Re-Constructionist Power Brokers or Nut case crazies. Unlike some of the current crop of Thumpers (you know who you are!) out there we realize that Thaumaturgy has it’s place as well.

    It’s terribly difficult for me to conceive of the amount of time, energy and other resources the so called “GH Adepts” of the various and sundry “True and Only” use to stupidly hurl venom around at each other, just totally saddens me. How can one Not be plagued with incredible ego issues if one requires being referred to as “Greatly Honored”, even if they did expend the effort to merit the title? It doesn’t take a boxcar full of magical Discrimination to see that for what it is. How about a simple Frater or Soror (insert Motto here), duh.
    Wait… can I be expelled for that? “C’est la vie” !!!

    It’s “my” belief that the “Ogdoadic” system was proffered as an alternative to what has been called the “Masonic / Rosicrucian Political Structure” of the GD / RR et AC, which appears to be the source of the incredible BS, not the essential Hermetic Magical aspects. Sadly, there has always been some level of precisely this kind of nonsense from the inception into the 1970’s, when the MP was published (how much of a cash cow it was I do not care), and it is still painfully and plainly with us now! I contend that his was an attempt to present essentially the same package of Hermetic Magick without being involved with an overt connection to “Rosicrucianism”, and no wonder, just look around at the public face presented today in the name of the GD, et al.
    It’s as bad if not worse, than it has ever been, despite being led by so called enlightened adepts, wow. Of course there are some well meaning elements to be sure, but huge egos and profit and power mongering are rampant.
    D & P even felt it necessary to refute a claim that the their system was closely tied to the Stella Matutina made in “The Sword of Wisdom”, by Ithell Colquhon. There is a tacit acknowledgement that members of the Stella Matutina wandered in and out of the Ogdoadic structure, as well as there being fraternal comradeship with some elements of the British Druidry, which I find personally to be somewhat enlightened. I have detected as well as other magicians of my acquaintance some elements of Crowley’s “Star Ruby and Star Sapphire” type versions of GD techniques incorporated into their material, no Bad thing really! Just curious as to how prevalent the notice is, it’s not stated overtly, just an overall admiration for the “Master Therion”, again very interesting.
    I do apologize for wandering a little off the Title Topic! ;^)

  12. I think you are reading far too much significance into, and hence making a straw-man out of, this so-called “masonic / rosicrucian” thing. For a start, as John Michael Greer states in his book “Inside A Magical Lodge,” a certain amount of masonic-type structure is conducive to the efficient running of any magical order, GD or otherwise. Secondly, although you acknowledge the influence of Crowley on the Aurum Solis, you appear to be ignoring the influence of another whom Dennings & Phillips weren’t so conscientious in making explicit, to wit: Paul Foster Case. The irony is that the Aurum Solis lifts its conception of the higher mystical grades and their relation to the Qabalah pretty much from Case’s “True And Invisible Rosicrucian Order” without acknowledgement. The influence of Rosicrucianism on the Ogdoadic tradition is far more subtle than its adherents chose to admit!

    Also I am not too sure that a “masonic / rosicrucian political structure” – whatever that may be, is responsible for the current flame-wars in the GD community. From my point of view, the GD community appears to consist of a vast number of people acting in a dignified manner and not getting the credit they deserve, and a very small minority acting in a bizarre and aberrant fashion.

  13. Griffin doesn’t give a crap about neo-nazis because he has possible links to them. This was snapped some time ago outside of a university http://www.geocities.ws/gd.insights/yahoogd4lg.jpg. There exists somewhere a photo of a GD temple he decked out with nazi flags. Griffin is a scumbag with no one’s good intent at heart. He put a trademark on Golden Dawn solely to harass anyone who used the name, and his links with Mathers’ AO are humbug and forgeries.

  14. Reblogged this on Sol Ascendans – The Website of Alex Sumner and commented:

    First written some eighteen months ago when the Chrysi Augi ((literally: “Golden Dawn” in Greek) were first elected to the Greek Parliament. Now it seems that others in the GD community (e.g. here and here are waking up to the potential for damage that the Greek extreme right-wing party hold over the (magical) Golden Dawn community.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s